"I think it’s because when you’re moral just because it’s “right”, it means much more..."
But, without some sort of moral compass to determine what is "right" and "wrong", it's all subjective. Which, I believe, is one of the biggest problems with society today. ("I gotta do what is right for ME.")
Being told what is right is not the same as believing it. If you believe it, you are being "moral just because it's right"...and that is regardless of whether you are an atheist, Christian, etc. Pretending to be something you are not only goes so far...and that is what you are seeing in society today.
Daniel Miessler
· 1 year ago
I mostly agree with you, iMav, but I think there's a difference in morality based on measuring happiness and suffering on earth and a morality based on a holy text written by an invisible, all-knowing, omnipotent God who will kill you if you disobey.
One is fear and fantasy-based, the other is based on improving life for humans.
Obbop
· 1 year ago
The happiest longest-lasting marriages I observed were a master/slave style in which the female accepted the collar willingly and always obeyed Master and did all she could to please him.
In turn, as long as Slave fulfilled her role properly, Master always ensured Slave was treated well and Master always considered Slave's wants, needs and desires when making decisions regarding the pair.
Sadly, the brainwashed indoctrinated-by-our-culture-at-large will instantly resort to knee-jerk rhetoric to lambast the Master/Slave relationship. Oh well, the mass of humanity functions with simple minds devoid of mental training. Mere simpletons.
I have never engaged in the Master/Slave combo, opting instead to just shun the AMerican female; emotion-laden creatures generally devoid of rational logical thinking abilites. Generally, it is likely best for the American male to shun America's spoiled self-centered "Princesses" and select, instead, a female from outside the USA where the culture doesn't convince females that their mere existence is worthy of adulation and their only needed contribution to a male is to spread their thighs just often enough to keep their "meal ticket" around to serve their wants, needs and desires.
Dittohd
· 1 year ago
Talking as though everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line acts one way and everyone south of it acts another is no better than discussing a subject implying that all men are the same and all women the same. I personally question the number of southern and northern states the author has truly experienced and the number of personal situations within each of those states he has surveyed in order to come to a reasonably accurate opinion of the situation. I also question his statement concerning Atheists being underrepresented in our jails, considering the way so many media hacks twist and even make up statistics on a wholesale basis these days whenever it furthers their agenda. A long time ago, I heard that it was Jewish people who are the most underrepresented in our jails.
As a result of all this, I would question everything the author said and every conclusion he came to as totally biased or just not true based on biased and faulty information supporting his conclusions.
Concerning Obbap's comment, I also wouldn't go anywhere near an American woman as relationship material, not because I think all American women are born the same but because they are all brought up under basically the same set of government rules of engagement and are perpetually brainwashed, along with their parents, by the same predominantly liberal media to be afraid of, disrespect, and not give a damn about us men as though we are just an annoyance to take advantage of if it's not possible to do away with all of us completely.
dale
· 1 year ago
What's with all the hate on the south? You're really coming off as a bigot lately. Even here in California, you're more likely to get divorced than stay married. I keep hearing people call that first a "starter" marriage. It's sad.
Betty Swolloks
· 1 year ago
You see thats the trouble today, we have so many women who now think they are Mens Equals. We need to stop all the handouts and hand ups that woman have recieved and treat them as true equals. They will vanish in a flash and return to the kitchen.
Maxo
· 1 year ago
I do not like that many females feel that they MUST get married by 25. It seems like a very ridiculous stigma to place upon yourself, or to place upon someone.
Michael Farnum
· 1 year ago
Daniel,
Wow. That is almost all I can get out about this post. Blaming false morality, belief in God, and living in the South for more divorces, teen pregnancy, etc. Jumping from your sources to your conclusion is a logic leap of immense proportions that deserves congratulations.
Really, Daniel. I think that is the harshest and most bigoted statement I have heard you make. Come on man.
Michael
Daniel Miessler
· 1 year ago
@Michael
I'm not sure what you find so offensive. Let me try and restate.
<ol> <li>Religion -- especially done poorly -- teaches morality from the wrong angle, urging an external influence rather than an internal.</li> <li>This often causes poor behavior in adult life when it comes to life's vices because the morality is not natural or sustained. It tends to fluctuate widely.</li> <li>This is visible in crime statistics and other moral indicators such as teen pregnancy, with "Republican", i.e. religious, states doing worse than democratic states.</li> </ol>
I've seen many data sets on this, and I've included some in my post. I"m promoting one theory for why those data sets exist. The theory isn't my own, and I think it's more a matter of obviousness than controversy for many who are familiar with the data and the cultures involved.
But again, that's open for debate. Perhaps you think the data is wrong? Or perhaps you feel there's another explanation for the data? Either way, let's discuss it. But "bigoted" I don't think fits well here. You're intolerant of wife beating and child porn lifestyles, right? Well, I'm intolerant of those things too, and of teen pregnancy and crime. So I guess we're both bigots.
I have MANY friends (and family members) that are very rational and moral people while being religious and I don't rail against their lifestyles. It's a particular incarnation of religion (unfortunately the predominant one, however) that I'm addressing here. And if the data shows a correlation in the data, and I'm proposing a theory that points to causation, I don't see how that should be cause for offense.
Let's talk about it.
Cheers,
-Daniel
Pregnancy Complications
· 11 months ago
Couldn’t be written any better. Reading this post reminds me of my old room mate! He always kept talking about this. I will forward this article to him. Pretty sure he will have a good read. Thanks for sharing!
All Comments
"I think it’s because when you’re moral just because it’s “right”, it means much more..."
But, without some sort of moral compass to determine what is "right" and "wrong", it's all subjective. Which, I believe, is one of the biggest problems with society today. ("I gotta do what is right for ME.")
Being told what is right is not the same as believing it. If you believe it, you are being "moral just because it's right"...and that is regardless of whether you are an atheist, Christian, etc. Pretending to be something you are not only goes so far...and that is what you are seeing in society today.
I mostly agree with you, iMav, but I think there's a difference in morality based on measuring happiness and suffering on earth and a morality based on a holy text written by an invisible, all-knowing, omnipotent God who will kill you if you disobey.
One is fear and fantasy-based, the other is based on improving life for humans.
The happiest longest-lasting marriages I observed were a master/slave style in which the female accepted the collar willingly and always obeyed Master and did all she could to please him.
In turn, as long as Slave fulfilled her role properly, Master always ensured Slave was treated well and Master always considered Slave's wants, needs and desires when making decisions regarding the pair.
Sadly, the brainwashed indoctrinated-by-our-culture-at-large will instantly resort to knee-jerk rhetoric to lambast the Master/Slave relationship. Oh well, the mass of humanity functions with simple minds devoid of mental training. Mere simpletons.
I have never engaged in the Master/Slave combo, opting instead to just shun the AMerican female; emotion-laden creatures generally devoid of rational logical thinking abilites. Generally, it is likely best for the American male to shun America's spoiled self-centered "Princesses" and select, instead, a female from outside the USA where the culture doesn't convince females that their mere existence is worthy of adulation and their only needed contribution to a male is to spread their thighs just often enough to keep their "meal ticket" around to serve their wants, needs and desires.
Talking as though everyone north of the Mason-Dixon line acts one way and everyone south of it acts another is no better than discussing a subject implying that all men are the same and all women the same. I personally question the number of southern and northern states the author has truly experienced and the number of personal situations within each of those states he has surveyed in order to come to a reasonably accurate opinion of the situation. I also question his statement concerning Atheists being underrepresented in our jails, considering the way so many media hacks twist and even make up statistics on a wholesale basis these days whenever it furthers their agenda. A long time ago, I heard that it was Jewish people who are the most underrepresented in our jails.
As a result of all this, I would question everything the author said and every conclusion he came to as totally biased or just not true based on biased and faulty information supporting his conclusions.
Concerning Obbap's comment, I also wouldn't go anywhere near an American woman as relationship material, not because I think all American women are born the same but because they are all brought up under basically the same set of government rules of engagement and are perpetually brainwashed, along with their parents, by the same predominantly liberal media to be afraid of, disrespect, and not give a damn about us men as though we are just an annoyance to take advantage of if it's not possible to do away with all of us completely.
What's with all the hate on the south? You're really coming off as a bigot lately. Even here in California, you're more likely to get divorced than stay married. I keep hearing people call that first a "starter" marriage. It's sad.
You see thats the trouble today, we have so many women who now think they are Mens Equals. We need to stop all the handouts and hand ups that woman have recieved and treat them as true equals. They will vanish in a flash and return to the kitchen.
I do not like that many females feel that they MUST get married by 25. It seems like a very ridiculous stigma to place upon yourself, or to place upon someone.
Daniel,
Wow. That is almost all I can get out about this post. Blaming false morality, belief in God, and living in the South for more divorces, teen pregnancy, etc. Jumping from your sources to your conclusion is a logic leap of immense proportions that deserves congratulations.
Really, Daniel. I think that is the harshest and most bigoted statement I have heard you make. Come on man.
Michael
@Michael
I'm not sure what you find so offensive. Let me try and restate.
<ol>
<li>Religion -- especially done poorly -- teaches morality from the wrong angle, urging an external influence rather than an internal.</li>
<li>This often causes poor behavior in adult life when it comes to life's vices because the morality is not natural or sustained. It tends to fluctuate widely.</li>
<li>This is visible in crime statistics and other moral indicators such as teen pregnancy, with "Republican", i.e. religious, states doing worse than democratic states.</li>
</ol>
I've seen many data sets on this, and I've included some in my post. I"m promoting one theory for why those data sets exist. The theory isn't my own, and I think it's more a matter of obviousness than controversy for many who are familiar with the data and the cultures involved.
But again, that's open for debate. Perhaps you think the data is wrong? Or perhaps you feel there's another explanation for the data? Either way, let's discuss it. But "bigoted" I don't think fits well here. You're intolerant of wife beating and child porn lifestyles, right? Well, I'm intolerant of those things too, and of teen pregnancy and crime. So I guess we're both bigots.
I have MANY friends (and family members) that are very rational and moral people while being religious and I don't rail against their lifestyles. It's a particular incarnation of religion (unfortunately the predominant one, however) that I'm addressing here. And if the data shows a correlation in the data, and I'm proposing a theory that points to causation, I don't see how that should be cause for offense.
Let's talk about it.
Cheers,
-Daniel